. >> i seem to recall joe biden saying during the '08 program we'll cut, i think he said it was foreign aid. tell us your view about how we can kind of put that one on a sustainable basis pretty create -- politically. how can you persuade the public it's being used efficiently, what are the things that are working and what are not? >> well, i think the keyword here is "efficiently." we have to demonstrate that the money b, the taxpayer money that is being sent overseas for foreign aid is, number one, in our strategic national interest. and we have to articulate what that interest is. secondly, i think we have to go beyond just sending the money so it gets deposit inside whoever leads that country's swiss bank account. that we have to demonstrate that that money is being effectively used to address certain things. give george w. bush significant credit for the millennial challenge corporation program, for pepfar, treatment of aids in africa. because they have set a set of standards that these are o our values, these are our standards. if you are able to enforce, implement and enforce tho